Just out of curiosity, but both raids were filled on Thursday - but the roster states 10 Core Raiders and 14 signups and 5 of those signups were cancelled, how did both raids fill unless we have some new criteria for picking the 2nd team?

Bob

2 teams.
Team 1 is approved, team 2 is cancelled.
queued are reserve and cancelled signups.

Lately there has been a focus on having one slightly better group able of killing LK, normally around 6-7 of those have already killed LK.
Second group is normally made up of players/classes/roles we need, like 2 tanks, 3 healers, 3 ranged and 2 melee.

Picking is and will always be done by a person, and hence someone will always be unhappy with it.
If i were to do signups, i would first pick 2 tanks, if a coice between 3 equally good tanks, i'd pick early signup.
Same rule of thumb for all other roles, but .....you always want one imba tank, and 1 imba raid healer, regardless of when they signed.
This post is my personal opinion and not guild opinion.

Yeah don't know quite how people still miss this but in order to make it easier for us to see we always put grp 2 in the CANCELLED area. They aren't cancelled - they are the 2nd grp and these people signed up and were available to raid.

We take any who were actually cancelled out of this area and put them in queued with a note that they were cancelled, hence there were actually 28 signed up - 20 were approved into the 2 grps and 8 queued.

To the 8 remaining it was suggested in guild chat that they form another grp - it shouldn't be that you have to have an officer or you can't raid but we do need to have someone who is willing to step up and fill the role of RL in these situations.

As to the LK group just to clarify - as Chev slightly over estimated the number who have done this before that were in the group. We have never had more than 3/4 people in that group that have downed him before so that means at least 6 people are getting the chance to down him for the first time - and it is important to have the people along who have done it before for the moment.

I believe this group will have him down soon I hope and another group will get to have a go shortly.

As for the 2nd group and how they are chosen - Chev is right there is normally some discussion between officers and maybe some picing and exchanging but essentially 2 tanks and 3 healers get sorted and then dps filled out - we also try to include 1 kingslayer so you can at least get a try at heroic loot ship.

For those that we haven't raided with before we will tend to check their gear, gems enchants etc on sites like be.imba.hu and see what experience they have had - and try to get a mix where the majority are well geared and know what they are doing and maybe allow one or two less experienced in - however I have had the feeling recently that the 2nd run people have been more and more trying to use it gear up which is somewhat unfair on the geared/skilled people that go along (and they are starting not to sign up) - we often have alt runs on other nights if this is what people want to do. I would rather see the 2nd run getting as far into icc as possible so that we have a good grp to potentially continue forward and tackle the LK too - although again this is my own view not an officer view and generally we have to make the best groups we can out of those that sign.

So in conclusion:

• Cancelled = group 2 these people were signed to raid!
  
• In order to run more than 2x10 mans we need people who are willing to RL it and would still need a few more to sign 28 is close but won't necessarily be the right roles.

Thanks for the answer. Sorry I was a little cranky last night, I get few opportunities to raid now the summer holidays are upon us and was looking forward to crack a few heads.
From a personal view, it is not my overriding aim to be a Kingslayer and yes I would like to take some of my alts into ICC.

What annoyed me most is that out of 3 recent signups I have only been chosen once and that was because Chris was asking for more signups an hour before raid.
I statistically seem to have more chance being asked than to be chosen from signup.

Anyway I will try to stick to alt fun runs in future and make way for the Kingslayers. Unless you are short and need to make up the numbers.

Bob

When there are so many people online... I wholeheartedly approve of people getting their shizzle together and organising a third group.

Don't be shy... We sometimes need someone to pick up the job of raid leader... Get those invites rolling.... Check the calendar for people who signed but didn't get in.... /w everyone who isn't in ICC and check to see if they would come along.... To spam /g with "LF 2 Tanks and 3 Healers + 5 DPS".... To do everythign in their power to get another group going without an officer needing to do it for them.

And if you can't get a full guild run in these circumstances, then sure thing, bring along some friends from outside the guild if you have them... Although officially we don't bring along PUGs to our raids, if you're trying to get the unofficially 3rd group together, I don't see why filling a couple of spots with PUGs is a problem.... Just don't get em the vent (I mean MUMBLE) server details!